As promised, Don Lemon released his interview with Elon Musk today. I watched it and I think you can see the moment when Musk decided he was not going to be doing any business with Don Lemon, but more on that in a moment.

As Ed pointed out earlier today, Lemon's transformation from CNN primetime bigwig to morning show host to independent journalist on X is quite remarkable especially given what a snob he has been in the recent past about independent journalists. Simply put, I don't think Lemon likes the cards he's been dealt but he's determined to act as if this was all part of his master plan. It's not convincing on any level.

The interview itself starts out pretty collegially. Musk seems to be in a good mood as he and Lemon discuss whether or not Lemon is on the left, the center left or something else. The first real moment of awkwardness appears when Musk says that CNN is "generally considered" to be on the left and rather than agree or let it pass, Lemon asks "Why do you say that?" in his most serious tone. But this momentary awkwardness seems to resolve itself as both men agree that they prefer to make decisions independent of party labels.

From there the conversation goes to a recent meeting with Donald Trump (which Musk characterized as a breakfast at a friend's house to which the former President stopped by) and Musk's decision not to give money to either candidate. There was a brief discussion of the forthcoming Tesla Roadster and Musk's reliance on video games as a form of relaxation. 

There was more awkwardness when Lemon pushed Musk to talk about his prescription for Ketamine. Musk noted that talking about one's need for prescription drugs was pretty personal territory, but still seemed willing to talk about. If you search Google you'll see that every news outlet now has a story up about Musk's drug use. Here's CNN's take:

“There are times when I have sort of a … negative chemical state in my brain, like depression I guess, or depression that’s not linked to any negative news, and ketamine is helpful for getting one out of the negative frame of mind,” Musk told Lemon. Musk added that he has a prescription for the drug from “an actual, real doctor” and uses “a small amount once every other week or something like that.”

While Musk said he doesn’t drink and doesn’t “know how to smoke pot,” he didn’t specify whether he was talking about ketamine or another substance when he said he is “almost always” sober while posting late at night.

Musk has previously posted on X about his prescription use of ketamine, a drug used primarily in hospitals as an anesthetic but which is increasingly being explored as a potential treatment for depression, anxiety and other mental health conditions. Musk’s comments offer greater insight into the use of the drug by one of the world’s wealthiest and most powerful people.

I think the conversation might have recovered from that but Lemon's next series of questions was about the Great Replacement Theory. There was an interesting exchange for a minute or two but it ends with Lemon basically accusing Musk of agreeing with neo-Nazis who have gone on shooting sprees. And at that point (just over 30 minutes in) Musk is clearly starting to regret agreeing to the interview. "Don, the only reason I'm doing this interview is because you're on the X platform and you asked for it. Otherwise I would not do this interview."

And things got worse from there. Lemon pushed Musk on the idea that X isn't doing enough content moderation. Musk argued that X removes content which is illegal but, beyond that, he believes in freedom of speech. Lemon provided Musk with examples of a few "hateful" posts which he said had been up for a while. "Are they illegal?" Musk asked? 

"They're not illegal but they're hateful and they can lead to violence," Lemon replied.

"So, Don, you love censorship, is what you're saying," Musk said.

No, I don't love censorship," Lemon replied. He added, "I believe in moderation but..."

"Moderation is a propaganda word for censorship," Musk interjected. "Look if something is illegal, we'll take it down. But if it's not illegal then we're putting our thumb on the scale or being censors."

"You're putting your thumb on the scale for moderating hate speech? I mean, you don't put out child pornography," Lemon said, sounding confused.

"It's illegal," Musk said.

"Some people would say that's considered censorship," Lemon replied as if Musk wasn't being perfectly consistent with what he's said.

"Don, you're not...I literally said is something is illegal we will obviously remove it, but if it is not illegal...The laws in this country are put forward by the citizens, we're a democracy. If those laws are put in place by the people, we adhere to those laws. If you go beyond the law, you're actually going beyond the will of the people."

From there the argument keeps rolling downhill with Lemon pushing the idea that Musk still needs to do more content moderation and Musk arguing that just because someone says something on X doesn't mean the company is promoting that speech. 

This comes around again about a minute or two later when Musk agrees that X does not promote hate speech and Lemon points back to the examples and says, "So you don't consider that hate speech?" The difference between a news site where the content is produced by people working for the company (making the company responsible for the content) and a social media platform where regular people produce the content and the host allows it to exist doesn't seem to register at all with Don Lemon. It's as if he's never considered this difference before.

"I guess you're not understanding what I'm saying," Musk said and by this point, he is clearly no longer enjoying this interview (and who can blame him). By the end of this part of the conversation, Musk is telling Lemon, "You desperately want censorship. You want censorship so bad you can taste it."

The last five minutes are where this finally comes completely off the rails. Musk warns that he's running of time and Lemon asks him about advertisers leaving the platform. Musk given an answer and Lemon keeps pressing. I won't rehash it all here but Musk clearly believes that he's taking a principled stance in refusing to let advertisers pressure him into censoring the platform. Lemon keeps suggesting that if advertisers choose to leave that's Musk fault. He doesn't literally say that Musk should be giving in to their demands but that's the implication. At this point, Musk seems about ready to walk off because Lemon just doesn't get what he's saying, again.

By the time it's over, Musk is clearly irritated and Lemon clearly knows it. He's sort of apologizing, saying he didn't mean to make Musk angry but it's too late for that now. Whatever deal they were working on is off.

Here's the full interview.